Author Topic: LMP Progress (Read 7776 times)

BGSWebDesign · « **on:** May 14, 2006, 08:34:06 pm »

DW,

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Normally this will be a $35 request, but you can submit your information securely here for a free investigation as time provides

This is the kind of thing that burns me, you're hurting others who have purchased your software (and yourself) - by making us wait for updates - when you offer your services for free!

Please STOP!!!

It's obvious you've got a non-tech person here asking you for technical assistance, when are you going to 'get it' and start charging for what you're worth?

mr.trevor · « **Reply #1 on:** May 15, 2006, 11:12:56 am »

I have to sympathise here with Brett.
Although we all know that DW has a heart of gold we also expect him to make a living from his business.

I tend to expect forums to be where the more experienced (users) give their help freely to the newbies.

I think that -as a last resort- DW could jump in when all else fails, unless people have a strong desire to force large amounts of cash upon him...

Regards. :wink:

DW · « **Reply #2 on:** May 15, 2006, 04:41:04 pm »

I sometimes offer free support in an effort to determine if there are bugs in the program or to gain more experience. Please be assured these free support requests are most often not the reason for delays between ListMail updates.

I think I've given up on the work-for-money business model. I've resigned myself to the fact that ListMail won't make me rich without a lot of support work and/or a hard-working team of employees (when all I wanted to do was work from home, managing everything myself). My time isn't really taken up by these offers for free support... it takes, maybe, a few minutes for each one... I've been working on other things, such as an ad-supported free service web site. Hopefully, when it's done, it will take off so I can continue to work on ListMail for fun. I do realize ListMail needs work and I plan to release another ListMail update soon (read: It's time - I'm putting more features in over the next few days) - hang in there.

Regards

BGSWebDesign · « **Reply #3 on:** May 16, 2006, 07:25:05 am »

DW,

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such as an ad-supported free service web site. Hopefully, when it's done, it will take off so I can continue to work on ListMail for fun. I do realize ListMail needs work and I plan to release another ListMail update soon (read: It's time - I'm putting more features in over the next few days) - hang in there.

Good luck with that... I'm curious if that is even possible (ad-supported services)?

Regarding LMP - just tell me WHAT is going to be in the next release - Split Testing, better Tracking, what?

Do I have to plan on writing my own php for handling better Link Tracking, and Split-Testing - as I've suggested you do it, etc? If you're just going to do LMP for fun... I wonder how much time you'll have to dedicate toward it, I've noticed recently you're not spending ALL your time on LMP - why? What happened to the changes we all recommended: better website, setup your own free Newsletter List and market to potential LMP customers that way - what happened to all of those ideas? If you implement that you would see your sales increase - maybe even allowing LMP to provide the income you need? Not sure why you haven't went further with the suggestions we've all made?

Here's a very simple one - do NOT allow anyone into your demo until they enter a name/email address - then market to those people - I'm telling you from experience - you can NOT market something by just setting up a website - you've got to get ListMailPro (the name) in front of people 5-7 times before they'll even consider buying - you're not doing that by just setting up a website and providing a full demo - sure you're product is the best (as far as I'm concerned), but you've got to market it if you want it to sell...

I have nearly 10 years experience in Internet Marketing, I can tell you that is the only way to do it, if you don't listen to the suggestions myself and others have made up here - I have little hope for the future of LMP, if you do listen great things could happend - but from what I see now - there's little hope... if that changes in your mind some day let us all know...

mr.trevor · « **Reply #4 on:** May 16, 2006, 07:52:12 am »

Wow,
DW's post seems a bit of a bombshell. I hope that I have completely missed the meaning of it.
The quote 'continue to work on ListMail for fun' is somewhat disquieting.
If my bank manager said he was intending to work at something else and continue running the bank for fun then I would loose some confidence in his reliability.
ListMail is at present one of the major players for email list management. To maintain the edge over competing systems it requires the continued development that has been achieved in the past.

Brett is right of course about the squeeze page for your own list.
Actually... if you were using the system yourself... some requirements requested would be more obvious to you.

How about a basic FREE version. People love FREE, and upgrading something that is working is preferable to starting anew. No frills, bells or whistles. This would allow prospects to get the install up and running and familiar with some basics. Upgrading to the paid version would then be just a matter of adding in the other files as with the normal upgrades. This gives instant usage with any of the install problems worked out first.

DW · « **Reply #5 on:** May 16, 2006, 03:06:35 pm »

Trevor,

In the time since I wrote that I had some time to think about it. I totally understand your fear - the statement was not thought through... When I get new ideas I get a little overzealous and pound away at the possibilities, temporarily forgetting other things.

To be honest, it's quite stressful- especially when I'm not able to keep up with the day-to-day work because I'm so focused/excited... The thought of doing support 24 hours a day is also stressful. I've been able to handle it so far, but what if my sales triple. :S I'd likely have to hire some people on...

Of course there are a number of things I can do to (continue to..) make a fair amount of money with ListMail with relatively little work. I've still got the new site almost ready to roll out (I'm a bit nervous to go and change things this drastically, but it should increase sales...!) I've also got those $35 yearly subscriptions for forum support & updates to start up (built into new site...), which will definitely add up over the years (I figure I'll continue to add about 250-500 new clients per year)

Your statement that ListMail is a major player is encouraging, however I still feel somewhat intimidated by the "big guys". To blow them out of the water sometimes I think ListMail needs a complete interface/code rewrite to provide for languages, themes, a more expandable and easy-to-use interface, better structured code, database data, etc to make it more efficient... this could take years of work and a lot more education. of course, I can still squeeze quite a bit of the ideas suggested so far (other than languages, mostly due to varying button lengths not fitting) into the existing interface...

My new ideas should come 2nd because ListMail IS still the #1 contributor to food on the table and a roof over my head, and if I lose that I won't be in any position at all to continue my efforts online. ListMail is far too valuable and I've gained far too much experience over the years to let it go to waste... !

I think it's safe to say that ListMail will continue developing for quite some time (several years), even if I do create that million-hits-a-month ad-supported web site and it becomes a "secondary" "fun" business for me.. (if that happens I might eventually pass ListMail off to someone qualified, or start up an office and start hiring people..)

I'd like to also think it's safe to say even if ListMail stopped developing right now it's still a pretty good value, but I don't want to scare you again (I know many of you are looking forward to the coming updates with the literally dozens of new features on-deck - they're coming!). Plus, I'm far too modest to make a statement like that... :lol: and I do need to keep up with the competition.

Good idea about the free version - it's one I toss around from time to time (but tossing ideas around doesn't "get 'er done" now does it?). I agree this could help 'ready' people and eliminate some of the mystery about the ListMail installation process, which can be quite a curve for those who are less-technical. It would also be a great way to 'hook' people - once they use it they won't want to stop.

Anyways, don't worry I'm not going anywhere anytime soon.

Yours indefinitely,
DW

BGSWebDesign · « **Reply #6 on:** May 17, 2006, 04:58:04 am »

Hi DW,

Good to hear you'll be around for awhile... still not sure of your level of dedication to LMP? I've seen you do this before with things like promoting hosting services - thinking you'll get rich at it, that's fine, but keep it in perspective - you'll learn over time that every thing takes work - and time to grow to produce income - it's not an overnight sensation that you expect... and then back to reality and your 'bread & butter' that is LMP...

Hopefully that will happen sooner rather than later in your case?

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I've still got the new site almost ready to roll out

The look is great - there's a problem right away - your entire front page focuses on feeatures instead of benefits! That's a HUGE mistake - when you market something you NEED to list the benefits - you can still call them features if you want - but you NEED to focus on benefits: for example: LMP will: 1.) Save you days of work by letting you schedule your mailings to go out on certain ('days of the week', or days of the month, or even on 'weekdays only'), 2.) Save you 8 hours/week by automating your mailings, 3.) Provide you with detailed 'Click-Through' lists created by only those customers that have clicked on links in your mailings, 4.) Generate 300% more revenue every day by allowing you to do a mass-mailing at any time, and on and on and on....

Quote from: "DW"

I agree this could help 'ready' people and eliminate some of the mystery about the ListMail installation process, which can be quite a curve for those who are less-technical. It would also be a great way to 'hook' people - once they use it they won't want to stop.

I'm not so sure a FREE version is worth it for you.... maybe a 'lite' version that doesn't allow all of the features for a reduced price, then let your buyer upgrade to higher versions with more features would be better...

Anyway best of luck, and I do hope you'll be around a while... LMP is a major competitor, it offers more than other mailers, especially with the CRON style mailings!

mr.trevor · « **Reply #7 on:** May 17, 2006, 07:17:32 am »

Things are looking better now...
Regarding getting ListMail profile higher would be the reason for a FREE version, although a LITE version as well would be a good upgrade path.

A FREE version would be viral as there are oodles of people already using ListMail and with large website business mailing lists that would benefit their subscribers by offering to them the FREE 'perk' to start their business with. A quality gift of this nature would be gold dust and this could also squeeze the names onto DW's prospect list and allow follow-up offers of upgrades and special offers including some hosting/maintenance services.

You only have to look at some products like WinZip to see how effective this viral distribution can be. If when starting out, ListMail was the accepted standard for mailing systems, then the upgrade as business prospered would be obvious and contagious.

I know for sure that some of the top acclaimed in the business of marketing use ListMail and also this forum and it would be of significant benefit to them that there is a substantive incentive to DW for ListMail to grow and prosper.

BGSWebDesign · « **Reply #8 on:** May 17, 2006, 07:30:21 am »

Trevor, DW,

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look at some products like WinZip to see how effective this viral distribution can be.

I tried this years ago, viral products DO NOT WORK, only in very, very limited situations, think about it EVERYONE needed WinZip then, et, etc...

LMP is NOT that kind of product, that's why I do NOT recommend that you give away a free version of LMP, stick with the Lite version if you want, offer it for a lower price - people do not respect things that are free - you'll get burned doing that DW, and I don't want to see that happen!

mr.trevor · « **Reply #9 on:** May 17, 2006, 07:52:14 am »

Well OK...
Brett is far more experienced that I am and I bow to his opinion.
...as I said before, there are some of the top marketers using ListMail and their experience is invaluable.

DW · « **Reply #10 on:** May 17, 2006, 09:03:19 am »

Thanks for keeping me on the ball, guys. I greatly value your thoughtful input. I should realize just how unique and powerful ListMail can be/is and work hard(est) to continue to exploit my position and stay ahead of the game.

I would never offer a full-featured version for free - I was thinking maybe a heavily stripped down version with programmed limitations. PHP restrictions can of course be easily hacked, but some nice features won't be there... Then again, some hackers might be fine with a stripped-down version and would then be less likely to become buyers. In a perfect world the benefits should outweigh the risks - I know most people like to get their hands on something and use it before buying. I think would-be hackers make up a small percentage of overall potential buyers even though it does take technical/script knowledge to run your own website and install a script like ListMail.

Anyways... back to work! Support is caught up and I'm considering new features.

Thanks again

BGSWebDesign · « **Reply #11 on:** May 17, 2006, 09:53:11 am »

DW,

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In a perfect world the benefits should outweigh the risks - I know most people like to get their hands on something and use it before buying.

Not in this situation, you still sound like you're considering it??? I really tell you - do NOT offer a free version, you'll be wasting even more time supporting people who do not want to pay anything for LMP - even a stripped down version is going to entice these jerks to download and try to use it and get free support!!!!

I'm telling you from experience it will NOT work, especially with a high-end product like LMP, stick with what you have, or only consider a stripped down LITE version that sells for a little less (NOT a lot less, maybe $150 instead of $200, not sure what price your at now?), got it?

Consider implementing some of the things we discuss up here, and get the new site up - CHANGE all of your features to be Benefits as I discussed and start Email/Promoting/Marketing to people that visit your website looking for a free demo - that will help you tremendously, you have GOT to start collecting email addresses of people coming to your site - another way to do it is write a simple 7 step course on Productive Email Marketing (something like that), offer it for free - IF they enter their email address and sign on to your newsletter - then start promoting to those people using the power of LMP to do it.... over time you will see many more sales (perhaps 50%-75% more, or even more), but you've got to get started now - don't waste any more time thinking about giving away free versions - or even doing upgrade - if I were you I would get that implemented right away FIRST, then go on to other things...

Good luck...

mr.trevor · « **Reply #12 on:** May 17, 2006, 10:32:14 am »

This just provoked a strange thought...
I wonder if DW knows what we all use ListMail for...?
... and why is he not using it (the best sequenced mail responder on the market..!) for his own business.?
Just a thought but you would have expected it to be used from day one, wouldn't you.? ... (and he gets a copy for free...!)
Why would anyone buy this system if it did not give a tremendous advantage to the user.? I think this must be the only mail software that I originally considered that does not have a mailing list.

DW · « **Reply #13 on:** May 17, 2006, 11:55:31 am »

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another way to do it is write a simple 7 step course on Productive Email Marketing (something like that), offer it for free - IF they enter their email address and sign on to your newsletter - then start promoting to those people using the power of LMP to do it...

Yep - great idea - I've been avoiding this due to the time involved but like most things online all I have to do is do it once.. !

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This just provoked a strange thought... I wonder if DW knows what we all use ListMail for...?

I've been ignorant, I guess. I need to realize I can't make money with sales alone and do a little marketing, especially marketing that shows off the software.

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Just a thought but you would have expected it to be used from day one, wouldn't you.?

Absolutely - it's really quite ridiculous that I don't have something like this...

I'll work on a short email series and mention some benefits on the main page... My conversion rate can only improve. Thanks for the tips and for bearing with me as I get it all under control

.

bhl007 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 18, 2006, 05:13:45 am »

Yes, I totally agree with idea provided by webshaman.

You should write your sales letter in terms of benefit. Write any benefit your list can provide, so that differ people that have differ requirement will also see your script benefit.

Then play with some business figure calculation, maybe in your email marketing, tell them how much they will lose if they not using the particular function etc....

Killer Sales Letter is extremely ****

Programming + marketing skill = $

IF you don't have much time to write, you can just go to elance to hire somebody to do web copywriting and email sales letter for you.