Selectively SKIPPING followups based on Products?

[BGSWebDesign]

Hi,

I had an interesting situation come up.  

[a bit of BACKGROUND]
---------------------------
 I sell about 15-20 different products, of course my Followups are all based on promoting these products sequentially.  I also have about 30-40 lists, for example Newsletter List, and Free Signup list, etc, etc...

[problem]
---------------------------
Here's the problem, someone recently emailed saying, I recently purchased PRODUCT1, but keep getting emails promoting it, isn't there a way you could remove me from getting those emails, but still send me other email promotions?


So, now to the question... I know about the xtra folder, and the signup-xtra.php, is there some way to selectively setup SKIPS in that file related to these Followups?

I guess I wonder then, to do this, wouldn't I need SEPARATE signups/lists for every single product I offer, and then trigger the skips (followup skipping) in the other lists by automatically signing up the user to the appropriate product list that they have purchased?

Secondly, what if they purchase 2,3 products at once, I'm guessing I would need to trigger multiple signups/REMOVALS - actually not that big of a deal as it rarely happens (maybe 1% of the time) that someone purchases multiple products.

Has anyone else done this, is it doable, without too much overhead?

Thanks in advance for any ideas or thoughts on this....

[DW]

How will ListMail know your client has purchased a product?  I think the only way to do this will be with some custom script in your payment processing routine.  The custom script could remove buyers, based on case-insensitive email address, from a certain list and add them to another.

[BGSWebDesign]

Hi DW,

man you stay up late!

How will ListMail know your client has purchased a product?

There are several ways, as you mentioned...

Right now I have a way of doing it this way - in my shopping cart when a purchase is made I can automatically have an email sent anywhere I want, one of the places I have one sent is to a custom email address, the information I need for adding to one list, or removing from another appear in the subject/body of this email (all automated by the shopping cart).  

The reason this is necessary - because my shopping cart resides on a different server from my LMP lists.

So, you see I have one way of knowing, but this is for one product, I currently don't have a way of knowing for multiple product purchases, it only uses the first product purchased.

In light of what I described above, it seems the best way to do this would be to setup a LMP List for each product, when that list gets an email (via the automated process above), then I need to selectively skip a specific followup, from 2 or 3 other lists... . now, here's where the real problem comes in, the followup I need to skip may not be the next followup, it could be 3 weeks later, or even 3 months later!  

So, it seems a list needs to be kept track of, skip this followup (or these two, really I need to skip 2 followups that are in succession for example skip followup 15,16 on list 23)....  

As you see, this is not as easy as it sounds....  It seems a database, or list needs to be kept track of, or actually, how about this, Dailymail when updating the followups would need to LOOK AT THIS SPECIAL DATABASE (skip database), the skip database includes records (email address, list#, followup#) to skip... Dailymail processes the special SKIP DATABASE every time that it is ran, this would happen BEFORE the normal dailymail routines are executed... make sense?  

Is it possible, what do you think?   One other thing, to keep maintenance issues at hand, the SKIP DATABASE would also need to have records removed if someone REMOVES their email address from all lists, that way it doesn't keep growin  

Let me know what you think?

[DW]

So, it seems a list needs to be kept track of, skip this followup (or these two, really I need to skip 2 followups that are in succession for example skip followup 15,16 on list 23)....

This is getting complicated but I think you're on the right track... I could probably develop this in several hours - $75 sounds about right.  The question is: when will I be able to find the time :?  I'm trying to develop an update and am currently dealing with an unprecedented amount of support - things are getting a little overwhelming around here right now :shock: but I'm plugging away at it enthusiastically. (It's all I can do)  If you want to explore this further feel free - it could give me some ideas for making the would-be script easier (and cheaper)

Regards

[DW]

Brett,

I got your email and am considering doing this for you.  Revisiting your problem:

Here's the problem, someone recently emailed saying, I recently purchased PRODUCT1, but keep getting emails promoting it, isn't there a way you could remove me from getting those emails, but still send me other email promotions?

Could this be solved more simply with the "simpler PHP insertion script" as this guy is using it?

I don't understand why you'd want to go through the trouble of 'skipping followups'... Why not just switch or add/remove from lists?

The simpler PHP insertion script can also overwrite dupes and set the seq, del, so the user could stay on the same list with a new Seq/Del #.

Regards

[BGSWebDesign]

Hi Dean,

Could this be solved more simply with the "simpler PHP insertion script" as this guy is using it?

I don't understand why you'd want to go through the trouble of 'skipping followups'... Why not just switch or add/remove from lists?

No, this person has ONLY ONE PRODUCT!  Of course if you have only one product you just 'remove someone' when they purchase, as you don't have anything else to offer them!

This would be very similar to your own situation with LMP and marketing.

I have over 20 products, and all of them are in the same market, of course, if someone buys one of these, it doesn't mean they don't want another one, in fact probably 20-30% will purchase another one...  and of those about 50% or more will purchase 2 or more, BUT, they do so over time, they don't do it right away.  I would be 'throwing money away' to NOT continue sending them marketing information for additional products.

Think about it again, if I know WHICH products they have already purchased I speed up the additional revenue, AND help the customer by NOT sending them duplicate promotions over and over for products they have already purchased.

Is it clearer now?   Let me know...

[chufford]

I have thought about this issue as well. I haven't come up with a complete solution, but I had an idea. Perhaps we could maintain a single user field with a list of product codes owned by the user. Then followups (as well as mass emails) could use user selection rules to choose appropriate followups. One trick there is making a procedure to keep the product field up-to-date.

Just my 2 cents.

[DW]

I'll be revisiting this as soon as I can - hopefully it's possible somehow!

[BGSWebDesign]

Hi DW, Chris,

could use user selection rules to choose appropriate followups

This is NOT an option for me, I have followups go out for over 20 products, I need to be able to move those AHEAD for products already purchased.

hopefully it's possible somehow!

I've already presented the method for doing this (of course it's possible), what are you having trouble understanding?

As I said, a TAG for each Followup (ProductCode field, or whatever) lets you assign a Product Code to each Followup.  Then a list is maintained - PRODPURCHASED (really a table in the database) that you add rows to, each record contains the UserID field, AND the Product Code for each product they have purchased.  When Followups are sent this table has to be checked and each row read, if the userID matches and the followup is going to that user, AND the TAG for that Followup matches one of the TAGS for that User, then SKIP that Followup and move that user to next Sequence #/delay indicated for the next Followup.

DW, consider this, I know that pulling this with SQL may be a bit of challenge, there is another alternative, for me, DURING the send mail function, check EACH User before they are sent - not sure, that may be too slow - and bog down mailing... probably the best option, write a SQL statement that reads the PRODPURCHASED TABLE and removes users from the Queue, THEN another SQL statement moves those users to the next Sequence #, THEN start the mailing... a two step process.

Let me know when I can PayPal you the money to complete this?  I'm ready to have this as a feature, or I'll write it myself... but I don't see that as the best option because I KNOW that others will benefit from this...

[mr.trevor]

Hi... It seems obvious, but the idea of assigning a product code tag to each follow up falls in line with the other use Brett requested of tagging each follow up for 'Campaign Tracking'. They could be considered together so that a tag identifying a campaign would also identify the product, or the other way around.
This might not be a good idea but I just thought I would mention it.

[BGSWebDesign]

Hi Trevor,

product code tag to each follow up falls in line with the other use Brett requested of tagging each follow up for 'Campaign Tracking'.

Thanks, I thought it was obvious too!  

That's exactly right, and why I'm asking DW to do this, adding a simple 'Campaign Tag' to each followup could also be used as a way of keeping track of purchases by keeping track of purchased products (product tag) that match the campaign...  in other words, give the Campaign and Product the same tag and you instantly have a way to get better stats AND add selective product Followup skipping.

I'm glad someone - 'sees the light' - halelujah!   :roll:

[BGSWebDesign]

bump...

what is taking you so long to answer this DW?


Thanks,
-Brett

[DW]

Brett,

I'm really sorry for the no response for upwards of 5 days now - It's been overwhelmingly busy lately. I've been answering at least 30 emails per day, both pre-sales questions and tech support... I've had about 20 new forum requests... I've had about 8 installation orders and a couple 'warranty' jobs (where I've offered or it was ordered in the past)... I've had to troubleshoot a number of frustratingly-elusive bugs on a number of hosts, taking many hours... I've had to deal with repairing a couple dedicated servers I've been managing... Add all that to being busy in the "real-world" (a funeral, fridge & car repair, etc) and I'm struggling to sleep regularly and find time for family...

Your request is one that would take pretty much an entire workday so it seems like Mt. Everest to me at this point.  I will hopefully be all caught up on things and be able to take a serious look at it soon.  As you know I do always try to accomodate with thoughtful and comprehensive solutions no matter how time-consuming.  I would have liked to have done this for you shortly after your initial request but I just haven't had any extra time at all to accomodate something so complicated and requiring so much communication (I know you like to have a lot of input:) )...

One automated server repair script + instructional email, one installation and, possibly, one straightforward custom shopping cart integration to go and I feel like I might be in a position to revisit your request.  Please understand we may not be able to do exactly as you like.. For instance, I had not planned on modifying LMP much, if at all - we may have to discuss alternatives to some of your suggestions, which I haven't fully perused yet.  Hopefully what you want to do can be done without much trouble or modification to LMP directly.

After this, a couple other simpler custom jobs I have coming up (for new clients), and after I catch up on other things (as they are likely to keep coming in and pile up) I hope to finally get started on improving Link Tracking! :?

Regards

[BGSWebDesign]

Hi DW,

I'm really sorry for the no response for upwards of 5 days now - It's been overwhelmingly busy lately. I've been answering at least 30 emails per day, both pre-sales questions and tech support... I've had about 20 new forum requests... I've had about 8 installation orders and a

Wahh, wahh,  everyone has told you about ways to prevent those type of things, if you're doing that good you must be making a 6 figure income     so why should we be worried?

haven't had any extra time at all to accomodate something so complicated and requiring so much communication

Where is this coming from?  So complicated, what are you talking about, this requires ONE FIELD to be added to Followups and on the followup screen!  That's it, and a little bit of SQL.  The reason I require communication is because I have to explain to you several times what I want - when it seems I'm fairly clear the first time.

Please understand we may not be able to do exactly as you like.. For instance, I had not planned on modifying LMP much, if at all - we may have to discuss alternatives to some of your suggestions, which I haven't fully perused yet.  Hopefully what you want to do can be done without much trouble or modification to LMP directly.

Again, where is this coming from?  When did you become that rigid, not planned on modifying LMP much?   Obviously you are not able to see the benefits that such a simple change would allow 1.) stats, Stats, STATS that anyone using your software will need, 2.) Better able to handle mailings to people for lists that offer multiple products (and I don't mean 1, 2 or 3 products).  

Anyone in this business knows that there are a lot of companies offering MORE than one product, and MORE than 2 or 3.  Once you get beyond that you can't do the simple things you suggest for tracking sales, and for skipping followups based on purchases.  When your website sells 20 or 30 different products things get harder, but that's life...  Are you suggesting that everyone who uses your product use it for only 1 product?

Here's where we're going to have to split, if you are not willing to make such simple changes to enhance your script than I'll be outta here pretty quick, and you know why, because I'll gladly write this thing myself if you can't see how this would help your end users.  

I've stuck with you for these last few years because in the past you've been willing to listen and see how things can be improved - but not seeing how this one simple change can affect things is beyond me - it's like you've become someone's Uncle Bob in the Basement  :twisted:  

Really, what is so hard to see about this, adding one field to Followups is going to give ANYONE the ability to get full Stats, all you would have to do is build a simple Stats page based on the ProductID that appears for each Followup and pull out the data - do you have your blinders on today, or did your household problems suddenly cloud your vision??

Look at the replies to these posts, it's obvious to even your users what this can do!  Honestly, as I've said before, I'm not sure what you do during your day, if LMP is your only product you should be able to make changes like those mentioned fairly quickly, you should have a handle on support issues/updates and be able to make money from them, we have all went round and round with you on this, if you're not, then something is wrong - either you are not listening (most likely), or your busy doing something else - most of the day - because you're not around here posting anything.  I work an 8-10 hour day or more, I rarely see you post more than once/day?

After this, a couple other simpler custom jobs I have coming up (for new clients), and after I catch up on other things (as they are likely to keep coming in and pile up) I hope to finally get started on improving Link Tracking! :?

Frankly, I doubt your ability to get this completed anytime soon, and/or if you do I doubt it will have the desired capabilities that I or anyone else up here requires to get good data out - especially if you're not interested in changing LMP!

I wish you luck my friend, but it seems it's about time I head out on my own - have a look at the FCK Editor that the other user up here implemented on his own, it didn't take him forever and it works just fine... those are the kind of things you should be accomplishing - when instead it seems you spend your entire day on support issues?

Good luck...

[dbowen1]

Seriously dude, what else do you want? Dean clearly laid out his reasons for being unavailable for your customization. You are not his only customer. I know he appreciates suggestions but you are crossing the line into DEMANDING things which isn't fair to him or his customers. Lay off!

As I see it you don't get to demand things unless they were promised to you when you bought LMP (things like support, bug fixes, etc.). This feature clearly wasn't there when you bought LMP so treat it as it is... a feature request. You are at DW's mercy for getting it implemented unless he accepts a payment from you to get it done.

Bug fixes, demand away. Feature requests, take it easy man! Sure, we'd all like to see our requests make it into a major release yesterday, but feature requests should be prioritized after bug fixes and support.

I've seen you proclaim over and over again "how hard can it be?". You clearly know nothing about software that must be deployed to hundreds of users all of whom will be using different versions of php, mysql, web hosts, etc. There is a long process of coding, alpha testing, beta testing, and public release. I've been coding php for a long time and seemingly simple features are never as easy as they seem.

Just my 2 cents...