ListMail Pricing Changes

[DW]

With the advent of version 1.8 and it's pending official release I am considering raising the price of ListMail.

I am thinking $195 will be a good start (and maybe even a finish, since I want to keep it reasonable and continue to undercut the competition).  I realize this may alienate some potential buyers, as it is more expensive.  On the other hand, the program is very useful and can make you a lot of money - so it's worth it (and many people have already agreed).  I think my chances are good at making more money with such a price change.  The affiliate program would be reduced to 30-35% so you would still be making around or above $50 for each referral.

Still, I need some form of recurring income (without starting a new project, just yet).

I have thought about charging around $25 for 6 months of Upgrades & Forum Access.  This would definitely work, but will take some time to become profitable as it will only apply to new users.

I have also considered charging only for Forum Access, and not Upgrades, since the forum is where I do the 'work'.  This way, ListMail can remain a one-time fee for those with the technical experience to keep it installed and running properly.  

And the last idea is to continue offering forum and updates for free, but reducing the priority of the forum, providing "priority support" for a fee.  This could be done either through a restricted forum category or a ticket system.

The charges will apply to new users ONLY.  At purchase time you would, of course, receive some priority support or access (3 months sounds good).

Once I can make enough money that I am not operating out of debt I will be much happier, better fed and housed, and will be far more motivated to (continue to) rapidly develop ListMail.

Your thoughts?

[DW]

I am thinking that option #1 (pay for updates and forum access) is the best and easiest method to make ListMail turn a profit.   This way people who do not require technical support will still be required to pay, for updates.  $25 an update / 6 months support seems very reasonable, especially considering some of the big names in the software industry charge hundreds for updates and hundreds for single support requests.  Perhaps I could offer an optional higher time-based fee and include support and analysis at no additional charge.

[bhl007]

I have no comment on this

However, I suggest you to make your sales page more powerful by using very powerful copywriting.

When your copywriting is extremely good, people will most likely to buy from you. For example: Mailoop.

Even your affiliate page can also be more powerful by providing classified ads, ezine ads, etc...

And, suggested to use your own affiliate program rather than using clickbank.

This JV stuff maybe useful for you. They are still in testing process and haven't release to public. http://www.paymypals.com/main.html

Hope my comment will help you. Thanks.

[DW]

I totally agree that I need to redo my site and demo experience.   The logo/header is weak.  The sales letter could be improved.  The design is alright, but could be more professional, with more content and graphics.  Obviously <hitting self>, I should have a newsletter potential clients can demo.  The affiliate area needs work, a lot of work.   Perhaps.. no, I should definitely work on this before implementing any extra ongoing fees or I might find my sales plummeting.

Before I took the poll off of this post (I found it unaesthetic and unnecessary) I saw 2 votes for ongoing priority support.  This method can work, but I'm not sure if it is able to support itself.  I will still need to hire someone to take care of the (eventual) massive amount of lower priority support.  Then again, a lot of people could take advantage of the priority support so they don't have to wait.  More money can be made in other ways, too.  Thanks for you input.

I'm still learning a lot about successful marketing.  My clients have been an excellent source of feedback and knowledge.  Now, it's all right here in front of me.  I just need to embrace it.  I'm excited.  So excited I need to be brought down to earth from time to time.  Thanks bhl007!

[BGSWebDesign]

Hi DW,

I totally agree that I need to redo my site and demo experience. The logo/header is weak. The sales letter could be improved

This is NOT as important as others lead us to believe, I've found that good split/testing is more important, if you just start re-designing/changing, etc... and you don't know where the changes are resulting in additional sales it won't be useful info, please continue updating LMP as MUCH as you are now before working on the marketing things discussed - while they are important, they're not that important, also having another Affiliate program probably would be a good idea.

I have thought about charging around $25 for 6 months of Upgrades & Forum Access.

 

Regarding this, that's a good idea, also, it's very nice that you are 'grandfathering' in those of us who have been here a while, I don't see why you couldn't start with those who started purchase in the last month or two - just before your major update?   Even if you need to consider adding previous owners into this type of fee I wouldn't complain too much, though I'd like to see it grandfathered in, at least for those who provide you with additional SUPPORT/HELP and answer your questions up here on the forum, those with the most useful posts, etc....

The forum is very useful and provides ongoing excellent information - I'm all for you being able to survive, and charging the support fee as a reocurring charge is probably your best option.   Please see my other posts, I believe you could do well by partnering with others, such as AdTrackz that already has ad tracking down to a science (including split (a-b) testing), incorporate these type of partners into LMP and you'll have a system that cannot be beat!  

Still one area that would need additional support would be providing some type of statistical analysis of UNSUBS, when they leave and why, perhaps consider working with someone that could code something like that in Excel for detailed analysis of each list.  

Also INCLUDE automatically a program that would WRITE OUT the required info into your xtra (.php files) for running (via cron), that would allow anyone to setup nice rules such as - if MEMBER unsubs LIST1, automatically unsub them from list2, 3, 4, but NOT list5, etc...   provide an automated way to create those lines in the xtra file and go provide that as a module ADD-ON to LMP, just a thought...

I'm excited. So excited I need to be brought down to earth from time to time. Thanks bhl007!

That's great!!!  Keep up the good work!

[bhl007]

Adtrackz is one of the best Ad tracking script nowadays.

Statistic analysis and other type of statistic is very important indeed.

if MEMBER unsubs LIST1, automatically unsub them from list2, 3, 4, but NOT list5, etc..

Ya, I agree with this function. ANd my opinion is: once subscriber buy through a product, then they will automatically unsub from list A, and subscribe to list B which provide more customized info to customer.

However this one need to use some method like ad tracking function..

This is NOT as important as others lead us to believe

For me, copywriting is one of the most important part. A good copywriting will convert to more sales. Writing a good copy is quite time consuming, however you need to write it yourself cos you are the owner of this script, once you write a good copy, other small stuff like redesign logo , page template etc.. just pass to other designer or outsource it.

Many successful marketer use this method so that can more focus in marketing rather than redesign the website by itself....

 :wink:

[mr.trevor]

Dean,
As I am a new customer here you may be interested that it was your lifetime free updates that swung the purchase for me.

Add2it AutoRespond Pro was in the balance. They have 'live chat' that answered questions immediately. I had to wait a couple of days for a reply from here.

The ListMail website looks more business like with no gimmicks or effects.
The Demo allowed lots of things to be figured out that are not mentioned on 'sales page'.
I read the installation manual and help files about twice (more in places) before buying.
Restricted access to the forum concerned me a little as I wondered what comments were being covered up (Hence my comments in the 'Testimonials area').

Personally I think a good FAQ with all the information from the past couple of years sorted into the sections would help clear up many questions for people not that familiar with the product.

**For the website, Dean, you could really do with investing in a good Autoresponder (I know one that I use) to chase up interested visitors as well as SellWide do on their site (I don't think anyone is still alive there but it all still works using their scripts).

After sales could even send out tips and information with suggested other uses etc for the first couple of week’s maybe.  


Anyway... I am glad now that I did wait for the reply as it cleared up the couple of questions I had.
Since installing, I am amazed that I can't find anything wrong.  I can usually find fault with most things... Some of the concepts used are just brilliant. I love the user defined text fields, which I have used as header and footer blocks to all pages as well as topical insert at top and signature box at bottom. I have an extra one half way down page for current special offers. So I can add current items to all lists without actually touching them.

Sorry this has gone on longer than I anticipated.
I hope my thoughts are of some use or interest.
TW.

PS.. there are many things that I have found that ListMail does that are 'hidden' and could be featured more for sales.


*******
*******
Workhouse mailer @ $97 looks ok but very little information available.
*******
Add2it AutoRespond Pro @ $97

Download all updates of Add2it AutoRespond Pro within the first 12 month for free and within the second 24 month at half price.
*Useful facility, maybe..BAN specific subscribers or domains from your autoresponders.

**Add2it have better itemized facilities list but cheap website style.
They have limits on fields you can use and other restrictions. They also bundle in 'free' downloads of e-books (which could be done here) but that cheapen the product if they are pushed to get a sale. I don't want to pay for free books..!

*******
SellWide.com
| A one-time membership fee of just US$100 (instead of US$250 as
| advertised on our site) gives you unlimited access for
| downloading ALL our current AND future CGI scripts - for your
| lifetime! No annual fees. No additional fees. You get it all
| with your membership! Valued at over $600!
 --Follow Up Mailing List Processor PRO ($149.00 value)
 --Follow Up Email Auto Responder ($49.95 value)
 --Multi Mailing List ($24.95 value)

**and all the other bits they do...
Quite useful but very segmented.
Very good automated site with lots of information on products and demo's.
*******

[DW]

Thank you all for your excellent and very thorough input!  I'm going to continue working on new features. I will start investigating partnerships and researching the competition for ideas, especially those some of you have recommended.  This has been positive and motivating.  Thanks for keeping me in the zone.

[shab]

Hi Dean,

Your script is feature rich so I would recommend price increase.

[clickbank]

Raising the selling price could be a good idea, but only time and testing will tell.  Part of the reason I was attracted to your product was the low price.

I don't think that charging for updates and access to the support forum is a good idea.  I am a fairly new user - and was also drawn by the free updates for life.  Keeping track of old vs. new customers will be a big hassle.
In addition, I consider a support forum to be an almost necessary portion of having a software product.  If you didn't run it, I would not be surprised if other users put together a "non-official" support forum.

That being said, I do think there are several things that you can do:
1) convert the forums/documentation into a wiki-style so that new information can be added and easily accessed (many of the support forums cover some of the same topics), and users can contribute.  While this may take some time to do, I think it would pay off in the long run.
2) add a paid trouble ticket system for priority support for existing users
3) more aggressively market installation and (optional) support contracts.  My guess (not confirmed) is that many of the users of ListMail or on the more tech-savvy side.  Opening up to wider audience could bring both more customers and more services revenue for you.  Look at a company like aweber which charges large amounts ($20/month) for a hosted solution that is in some ways inferior (unsubscribe links are aweber.com, etc.).  Make a hyrid model where people pay for the software, and then a monthly service fee for a couple of months so that they can get priority support when learning the software.  Perhaps restrict your service plans to people hosting with hosts you are familiar with (and try to convert users of other hosting services to Dreamhost which has a heft referral fee).

[dtrack]

Dean,

as you know I host my lists on your server. This provides you with a monthy income and gives me warm fuzzies knowing that if anything should go wrong with either the script or the server - I'd have one very motivated tech guy working to put things right. Namely you.

I think you should push this more to your new buyers. Offer them installation, tech support and hosting for a monthy fee. The installation is a one time job, the tech support should drop off shortly after installation but the hosting will continue long term.

The amount of help and customization I received from you when I was starting up was fantastic. Well worth the small monthy fee.

Dean

[rod]

Dean,

The comments by clickbank and dtrack make good business sense to me.

I like the paid support ticket system, which means any of Listmail users can have their problems sorted promptly. If something goes wrong with listmail on my server, I wouldn't hesitate to pay for a support ticket.

Fumbling around on forums can be time too consuming if you are in a busy period. The assurance of having technical staff to fix a problem is very necessary and paid support means you know the job will be done.

Rod

[DW]

My intentions with ListMail are to provide a cheap and useful product.   All I really want is to cover costs and make a small profit so that I can live comfortably.

I had an epiphany today.  I should charge either $2.50 or $3.50 per month for full access to the member area, updates, and support forum.  This is a small price to pay for direct support from technically capable staff (which I would soon be able to afford to hire).  This price will also allow me to live comfortably.  With 2000 clients at $3.50 that's $7000/mo, $2.50 $5000/mo.  I can live with that and I'm sure my clients will be able to, too!

As I felt at the inception of ListMail, I think that even though it is unheard-of these days, I should only be charging what I need to succeed.  I do not need millions of dollars every year to live comfortably.

Right now, with little focus on advertising, after several years I have around 1500 clients.  I think  that with some effort I could be generating at least this many clients per year.  My efforts are focused on improving the site and demo experience, adding new features, and doing more cost-effective advertising.

My task is to generate the ongoing revenue I need to survive and grow without losing customers - this low monthly fee is one way to do it.  I am confident that this rock-bottom rate would be warmly accepted in the marketplace today.

Thoughts?

[BGSWebDesign]

Hi DW,

With 2000 clients at $3.50 that's $7000/mo, $2.50 $5000/mo. I can live with that and I'm sure my clients will be able to, too!

Don't fall into that thinking.. it's fairly unlikely you will gather that many new subscribers!  You're better off thinking about how much the ones who use the software are willing to pay for updates, that's my 2 cents.

Also, as I mentioned previously, I believe that some users here should be grandfathered in at no charge - especially those that provide support to others and ask questions and post replies with real valid solutions that others have asked about in the past, consider that too, don't make your current subscribers feel they are being 'nickled/dimed' to your monthly income.  Remember some of us have been posting up here for years, certainly we would deserve some compensation for the excellent input we have provided?

As I said above, it's not smart to think in that number of LARGE subscribers, especially starting off, you'll be lucky, probably to sign 1%-5% which with 2,000 clients comes to 100 subscribers at $3.50 = $350/month, and that's probably being optimistic!   Also $3.50/month sounds a bit expensive (= $42/year).  $24/year ($2/month) sounds more acceptable.

Secondly, I think you should re-think how much free support you are providing!  I see tons of messages on these boards from people all the time who cannot configure LMP, yet you must be spending hours providing them with free help support - THOSE are the people that instead should be paying you to GET LMP setup, don't give in, and then tell them, by the way I'll help you free: charge them, if they cannot setup cgi scripts that's not your problem, and they should be willing to pay for it, your help files / install files are adequate in my opinion they should be paying for support.

I appreciate you re-thinking your ideas and allowing us to provide our input to them in this forum.

[valuehosted]

DW -

I think one of the things you should implement and I have been yelling at you since day one - ADD a newsletter on your home page for potential buyers to find out when you update, run specials etc.

I even know a good mailing software you can use (hint.. nudge.. hint)...  :lol:

--Tone