DomainKeys, SPF, Deliverability

[mike2]

Boom - Even with SPF records and Reverse DNS and clean IP's your email can and will still be delivered to the junk folder for other reasons ( I'd guess mainly for content at this point even if it's just confirmation emails... )

The only other thing I can suggest is try to get "Safelisted" with yahoo honestly.  They don't use a feedback loop ( that I know of ) like MSN or AOL, but they will put your IP(s) on a test for up to 14 days to monitoring and then can "White or Safe list" you if they feel appropriate.

[DW]

BoomPop,

Yet Yahoo and AIM never delivers my Listmail confirmation emails to the inbox.

Here's something I can recommend:

Manually check the "Return-path:" header of a confirmation email sent by ListMail.  If this is not bounce@example.com (Your ListMail "bounce to email") then this may play a part in how your message is classified by Yahoo.

Some servers require the following to be added to config.php to properly set the Return-path with PHP mail()-sent messages. (Welcome, confirmation and some notifications)

Code: [Select]

$phpmailf = 1;
While this may not be all of the problem it could be part of it.  I think the best solution is, as Mike suggested, to talk to Yahoo directly.  They are one of the more aggressive spam fighters these days and are, in fact, the source of most of my own headaches.

Regards

[BoomPop]

Manually check the "Return-path:" header of a confirmation email sent by ListMail.  If this is not bounce@example.com (Your ListMail "bounce to email") then this may play a part in how your message is classified by Yahoo.

Thank you for the follow-up Dean.

Yes, the return path is showing up exactly right.  The one thing that I've been concerned about though, is that I'm seeing 2 "Received: from" fields in the headers, with some strange conflicting info...

Code: [Select]


Received: from 72.xx.xx.xxx  (EHLO srv1.NEW-hostname.com) (72.xx.xx.xxx)
  by mta202.mail.re4.yahoo.com with SMTP; Fri, 15 Jun 2007 02:01:22 -0700
Received: from nobody by srv1.OLD-hostname.com with local (Exim 4.63)
(envelope-from <support@mydomain.com>)


And actually, I have seen a *few* Yahoo messages finally show up in the inbox, but nearly 72 hours has passed before they were finally delivered.

Regardless, as you both suggested, I think my best bet is to contact Yahoo directly.

BUT... does this mean I should just give up on DomainKeys?  After all the blood, sweat, tears, and cash I've invested to make them work?  Ugh...  As I said before, I hate whoever decided to put so much weight on them when only a tiny percentage of webmasters have the infrastructure in place to implement them.   :roll:

[BGSWebDesign]

Hi,

Interesting, BoomPop you're right, my Confirmation Emails to Yahoo are delayed for hours, I tested it myself, here are my headers:

Code: [Select]

X-Apparently-To: myemail@yahoo.com via 206.190.58.151; Tue, 26 Jun 2007 10:38:23 -0700
X-YahooFilteredBulk: xxx.xx.xx.xxx
X-Originating-IP: [xxx.xx.xx.xxx]
Return-Path: <nobody@server.mydomain.com>
Authentication-Results: mta131.mail.re4.yahoo.com from=mydomain.com; domainkeys=neutral (no sig)
Received: from xxx.xx.xx.xxx (EHLO server.mydomain.com) (xxx.xx.xx.xxx) by mta131.mail.re4.yahoo.com with SMTP; Tue, 26 Jun 2007 10:38:23 -0700
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (uid 99) by server.mydomain.com with local; Tue, 26 Jun 2007 11:41:32 -0400 id 000233AD.468133AC.00004E6A


So, it appears that I need the phpmailf variable DW recommends because my return-path is NOT equal to my bounce address, instead it is nobody@server.mydomain.com.

Look at the dates/times of send/deliver,
SENT:

Code: [Select]

Tue, 26 Jun 2007 10:38:23 -0700
DELIVER:

Code: [Select]

Tue, 26 Jun 2007 11:41:32 -0400

I thought it was even longer than that, but it's at least over 1 hour, this is too long and can really slow down people 'confirming' - but I thought I had watched the 'Bulk Folder' at Yahoo for at least 4-6 hours and not seen the email - so, the delay is disconcerting and a problem.  Either way the email ended up in the 'Bulk Mail' folder.

I'll try adding the phpmailf and see if that changes anything.

Regardless, as you both suggested, I think my best bet is to contact Yahoo directly.

If not, HOW do you contact Yahoo, is there an appropriate 'Postmaster' email address/telephone number I can use?  What do you recommend DW, BoomPop?

[DW]

It is not uncommon for Yahoo mail to be delayed.  This is the rate-limiting I've been spouting on and on about lately.  Imagine trying to send 500,000 messages.... some messages wouldn't get through for many days and would eventually be lost AND you run the risk of crashing your server by overloading the mail queue/hardware...

Here's a link with more information about contacting Yahoo, which seems to be the only way out of this mess for legitimate marketers:
Why am I getting “451 Message temporarily deferred” or "421 Message from x.x.x.x temporarily deferred" errors when sending mail to Yahoo!?

[BoomPop]

BTW... has anyone else come to the same conclusion that I have: That ehem... Yahoo Email SUCKS!   :roll:

Thank you for the tips in this thread guys.  Working on it now.

[BGSWebDesign]

DW, BoomPop, Mike

I've send contact info to Yahoo to see what can be done (white listing, etc).

My question to DW then - have you considered using VERP (Variable Envelope Return Paths) as suggested at yahoo website?  

List managers should remove addresses that generate bounces. A particularly popular technique for managing bounces is to use VERP to identify the recipient address that has failed.

Here's the URL for more info  on VERP:
http://cr.yp.to/proto/verp.txt

The suggestion to use VERP appears on this page at Yahoo:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/mail/original/abuse/abuse-58.html

I've double checked and found that some email I receive at my own Yahoo account uses Domain Keys and does NOT get delivered to the inbox, while other email does not use Domain Keys and does get delivered to the inbox... So, it seems that Domain Keys for now is NOT the best way to guarantee delivery to Yahoo....

Has anyone heard back from, or considered Habeas as I mentioned earlier?

[auto]

With AOL it is incredibly easy to get whitelisted officially.

Just call them up on the phone via their 800 number and talk to their postmaster department.

Then get them to add you to their feedback loop.

Then, you will get "SCOMP" message alerts every time someone clicks to "spam" your email.  

This way you can remove those people from your lists, and then AOL will quickly and easily deliver the messages.

[DW]

I have been considering VERP.  There does seem to be support for almost all MTAs however in many cases administrator assistance may be required to set up the alias.  That's not to say I'm not seriously considering implementing this.  I think it's a great idea that can potentially solve the issue of "which email bounced" and also open up some improvements such as my originally unsuccessful implementation of resending bounced messages (ie. no increase in seq #).  I don't see why we can't pass a message ID and the email or userid.